Who is the best defensive SS? Gunnar, Ortiz or Holliday?

[wildcard]

I know Holliday is the 1:1 Golden Boy that everyone goes nuts over but......  Gunnar has pretty good range and a strong arm at SS.   Ortiz is a slick fielder but is he better defensively than Gunnar or Holliday?    They are all good but who is the best defensive SS at this point.  Not in the future.  Now? And why?

Edited July 11, 2023 by wildcard

[sportsfan8703]

Ortiz, but all three will play there. We will get six years out of Ortiz being an elite defender at all three IF positions. No need to trade that guy. He’s RH. Gunnar and Holliday are LH. Lots of playing time to go around. 

[glenn__davis]

From the (very) little I've seen of Holliday I feel pretty comfortable ranking them Ortiz, Gunnar, Holliday in that order.  Gunnar has been better there than I expected.

[Sports Guy]

Ortiz…but Holliday has the least experience and will get better and better.

He is your SS of the future.

[evenparthrough9]

Ortiz.   Gunnar isn’t bad for his size but Ortiz is quicker and rangier 

[yark14]

If we hold onto Ortiz and Westburg, that gives us 4 infielders that each can play all 3 infield positions solidly.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Mateo

[wildcard]

28 minutes ago, evenparthrough9 said:

Ortiz.   Gunnar isn’t bad for his size but Ortiz is quicker and rangier 

Ortiz may be quicker and more surehanded but I think Gunnar is rangier.

[banks703]

Ortiz and it's not really close in my opinion. 

Can Gunnar play there? Sure as could Westburg. Hell, in a pinch you could throw Frazier at SS if needed. 

Ortiz and Mateo are very close in hands, range and footwork. Mateo has the stronger arm (I would put Gunnar's arm a tick above Joey's as well). I think that with Mateo's defense being not quite where it was last year, Joey has closed that gap between the two of them. Ortiz is the best defensive infielder that is in the system, period. The only argument would be Jorge but I think Joey is an overall better player on that side of the ball and more so in general. 

I maintain that Holliday ends up at 2nd when he is promoted to the Orioles. Much like Gunnar, he can play there. He probably won't hurt the defense by playing SS and yes he is only 19 and is going to improve but I just don't see him sticking at short. The arm strength is a tick below all of Mateo, Gunnar and Ortiz and from all of what I've seen of him I don't see Holliday as rangy as either of the three of them. Again, he will get better with age and reps of course but that's how I see it unfolding with all of them. 

 

[waroriole]

It doesn’t make sense to compare Holliday to the other two at this point. I doubt many people have seen Holliday enough to have an informed opinion. And that doesn’t tell you how he will progress. While I think Ortiz is the best of the bunch, I think Gunnar plays a more than adequate SS. 

[Aristotelian]

I haven't seen enough of any of them playing to judge. Based on the reports I think all three have the talent to play there. So far I like Gunnar's defense at SS better than 3B. Right now I think our best alignment is Urias 3B, Gunnar SS, Westburg 2B. I trust the organization to figure out the rest when the time comes.

[wildcard]

Range Factor this year at SS.

Gunnar       4.20

Ortiz           4.12

Mateo        3.90

Holliday      3.38 (3.60 at all levels for 2 years)

Westburg   3.27

For all those who don't like Range Factor.....Please show me a better stat that compares major and minor league fielding.

[Bemorewins]

Just about everybody knows that the obvious answer to this question is Ortiz.

However, a better question IMO that should be asked is which player gives the best value at SS considering both their defensive and offensive offerings?

Gunnar appears to be more than capable of manning SS right now (admittedly it is a small sample size at the Big League level thus far). And we know that Holliday will be given a regular spot in the infield. So again this comes down to which one the O's like more between Ortiz or Westburg.

I just can't see the Orioles pencilling the lesser talented player (Ortiz) for a permanent spot on the infield and then trying to figure things out by staffing the more talented players (Holliday and Henderson to fit around Ortiz.

I know that Joey Ortiz has a considerable fanbase/admirers on this site. But that logic doesn't seem to make sense in terms of how Major League teams usually operate. You usually want your most talented best/hitters to have regular places and then you usually staff around that.

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Range Factor this year at SS.

Gunnar       4.20

Ortiz           4.12

Mateo        3.90

Holliday      3.38 (3.60 at all levels for 2 years)

Westburg   3.27

For all those who don't like Range Factor.....Please show me a better stat that compares major and minor league fielding.

There is way too much noise in Range Factor.  Books have been written on the subject.  (Okay, I’m exaggerating, but it’s been discussed ad nauseum.)

If Gunnar has more range than Mateo, then please gouge my eyes out because they’re clearly worthless.  Gunnar’s very solid though.  

I haven’t seen enough of any of the three to make an independent judgment on the topic, but from everything I’ve read, I think Ortiz is superior to Gunnar.  I don’t really know about Holliday, but he’s less experienced, so it’s not a completely fair comparison. 


 

[clapdiddy]

I think its great to have this versatility.   After this season (possibly sooner), Frazier and Mateo will be gone.   It's nice to have three guys that can play shortstop efficiently, with another in the wings.  

Edited July 11, 2023 by clapdiddy